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Posted by Anne Rind on August 18, 19100 at 05:10:56:
In Reply to: The Curse of Life... posted by Peregrine Guardian on August 17, 19100 at 23:22:54:
: Genesis:
: 3:22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
: 3:23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
: 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
: Again, you do not understand the ideas behind these verses... Again, God said that man had become "as one of us," in the matter of the knowledge of good and evil only.
AR: I understand what the verses actually say. And since it is in no way inconvenient for me to recognize these facts, I need not re-interpret the facts according to my own beliefs or what is taught in church.
: In choosing the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, man took upon himself knowledge that he could not cope with. The knowledge of evil, granted in the act of disobeying, corrupts. In eating the fruit, Adam and Eve were separated from their rightful place which was designed by God. In their independence, they became corrupt because the Lord did not create them to be apart from Him. Indeed, He creates nothing which is not at the same time dependent upon Him.
AR: The "knowledge of good and evil" is volitional consciousness. The belief that man cannot cope with this is untrue. This is man's primary distinguishing characteristic and, in fact, the necessary characteristic for ethics. Without the ability to know good and evil, a being is automatic (you might say bicameral, in fact) as the characters of Adam and Eve were at the beginning of this creation myth. The only hinderances to the function of consciousness are mysticism and dishonesty. Mysticism and dishonesty underlie the common tendency in people to follow emotional motivations in choosing what to believe rather than objectively recognizing the facts as they are.
: In separation from God, death (spiritual) did enter into the world. With this spiritual death comes corruption of the flesh (aging). When God said that man must not be allowed to eat of the Tree of Life, He did not mean that man must be kept from becoming "as gods."
: First of all, you again ignore the words of the serpent which explained the they would become "as gods" if they ate of the first tree. They became "as gods" in the respect of knowledge of good and evil, but they certainly would not have become perfect. No where is this even implied.
AR: The concept of perfection is mentioned nowhere in the chapter and is not relevant to the discussion of what the verses say and mean.
: Second, the purpose of keeping man from the Tree of Life was to keep him from living immortally in the state that he was in. That is to say, the plan of God-- to bring man back to Himself through the sacrifice of the Son-- was already underway. Man was now "abnormal," and only the sacrifice of that "incorruptible seed" could bring him back to a place of harmony with the Lord. If not...
: ...then man might eat of the Tree of Life and remain as a kind of undead; a horrible state in which he was spiritually dead but physically immortal. Eating of the Tree of Life would have been a curse, not a triumph. That act of God was an act of love...
AR: I understand what the verses actually say. And since it is in no way inconvenient for me to recognize these facts, I need not re-interpret the facts according to my own beliefs or what is taught in church. Certainly, one can re-interpret the words from any scripture from any religion and justify its meaning. In my previous post I was just speaking of what is said in the book of Genesis, and I wouldn't attempt to explain the underlying motivations of an imaginary character in a storybook tale.
: ":Furthermore, how is it that the creature can become "perfect" when the very idea of "becoming perfect" is a contradiction in terms...
: I don't understand this question."
: I say this, not out of disrespect, but out of an honest desire to help... If you do not understand the question then you do not understand the nature of perfection. It is a huge topic, one which is, perhaps, not fitting on this board, especially considering that you likely do not respect the teaching of Scripture. If you want to discuss it, then we can take up the discussion by email...
AR: Perhaps you can re-word the question and include an explanation of your concept of "perfect" as well as an explanation of why perfection is even relevant to the issue at hand.