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: : : : : : Consider this: what if this universe and all other universes are the illusion? I know it's a weird notion, but this is philosophy now. What if that's really the case? : : : <I>I tend to think that everything follows the bridge abutment test. Another words if you belive that all is an illusion then drive your car as fast as you can into a bridge abutment and see if it is really there.</I> : : : Oh, it will be there and take my life. Suicidal I'm not! : : : <I>I gaurantee what you'll find is that all things may be an illusion but so are you and that makes everything as real as you are.</I> : : : <B>Yes, and you are extremely helpful to the intellectual dialogue too!</B> : <I>: So let us return to the purpose of this forum which is evolution.</I> : Consider it done! : : : ----------------------------------------------- : : : : : I tend towards Kant's views. : : : : : I don’t know how familiar you are with Immanuel Kant, but he described the universe in two parts. The world as it appears (to us), and the world the way it really is. I’m not an expert on Kant or anything, but I think that he did borrow from Plato, but did not go so far as to suggest that the real world is the abstract world of the forms. One of my philosophy teachers (who was a philosopher of mathematics) made the comment that maybe the reason modern physics is so strange is that its’ really just the best we can do. And maybe we would all need brains the size of football stadiums to understand the universe the way it really is. And as I ponder such obvious contradictions in physics, such as the whole particle, wave duality in nature. Which to me is like saying something is both round and square (at the same time). Maybe the answer is that the particle side is illusory (I don’t know), you certainly can’t through away the wave side of things. And QED, while I know it’s the best scientific theory we have, is obviously wrong. I won’t go into it, but it violates every conservation law we have. But it is accurate to 12 decimal places, or so. And while I think that modern physics may be mankind’s greatest accomplishment. I can’t help but think of Kant every time I hear the word neutrino, or graviton, or curved space-time. : : : : I agree with you that our view of the universe is constrained by our ability to measure it. This is not to say though that we are not on the right track, though. Or that we will never be able to. Conservation laws , like everything else are based on what we know about the universe. Neutrinos, by the way, have been detected.

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