Re: re grbs:
Astronomy Campfire

If ye would like to moderate the Astronomy Campfire, please drop becket@jollyroger.com a line.
Astronomy & Re: re grbs

[Open Source CMS Renaissance][Postnuke Hosting][Gallery Hosting][Blog Hosting]
DR. ELLIOT'S NORTH AMERICAN GREAT BOOKS TOUR--COMING TO A BOOK STORE NEAR YOU
[GREAT BOOKS: DISCUSS THE TRAGEDY OF DRAKERAFT.COM][Great Books Lovers Match]
[Physics Forums][Poetry][Shakespeare's Plays][Great Books][Open Source Business]
[Great Books Games][Federalist Papers][Poetry Contest][Classic eCards][Great Books Forums]

The new Astronomy Forum is at http://killdevilhill.com/astronomychat/wwwboard.html and jollyrogerwest.com.

Due to spam and off-topic content, these forums are being phased out and replaced with new great books forums. Please join us!

The World's Largest Literary Cafe: Carolinanavy.com
[Jollyroger.com][Carolinanavy.com][Nantuckets.com][BusinessPhilosophy.com][greattextbooks.com][Quarterdeck][xmlclics.com]
[ Jolly Roger Live Chat][The Jolly Roger][Kill Devil Hill][Western Canon University]
[Federalistnavy.com][Starbuck.com][Linux Poetry]
[ussconstitutions.com] [Free jollyrogermail][William Shakespeare] [JR Greetings]
[nantucketnavy.com][hatteraslight.com][Clic Greetings]
[MASTHEAD SEARCHTM]


[Follow Ups][Post Followup][Astronomy Campfire] [The Jolly Roger]
[The World's Largest Literary Cafe: Carolinanavy.com]

Posted by Astroman on September 23, 192002 at 10:15:29:

In Reply to: Re: re grbs posted by petes on September 22, 192002 at 09:40:57:

You said:
>Neutrino bursts from Supernovae interacting with matter in stars should produce reactions giving a burst of gamma photons from the surface.

Ok, this idea is completely wrong from an astrophysics standpoint. It simply doesn't work this way. Two protons fuse, under ideal conditions, producing a deuterium nucleus, a positron and an electron neutrino. Next, a deuterium nucleus and another proton fuse, producing a gamma photon, and a light helium atom. Two helium isotopes react creating a neutral helium atom, two protons and a gamma ray photon.
In a supernova explosion, protons and electrons are combined to make neutrons and neutrinos. The neutrinos carry off the vast amounts of energy produced by the collapse of the stellar core. The neutrinos _do not_ interact with matter to produce gamma radiation. In fact, if you're lucky, neutrinos _may_ produce Cerenkov radiation showing up as a faint flash of light within the proper environment and material. The number of neutrinos detected from SN1987a was under 1,000 while the theoretical output was 10^57. The detection was not even noticed at Kamiokande and Sudbury until the following day.

>I was trying to get the idea over in a few words by describing them as radar echos.

Radar may actually be closer to the wavelength you might detect a neutrino interaction. As I said before, an interaction will be reradiated at a frequency that's lower than the initial frequency. Gamma rays reradiate in x-rays, x-rays reradiate in the ultraviolet, ultraviolet reradiates in the visible visible in infrared etc. It's high school physics.

>I started thinking only about neutron stars but the article in Sky & telescope feb 1998 with its profiles of bursts suggested white dwarfs as well.

I'll have to look that one up. I recall the article, but not the specifics.

Anyway with some spherical trigonometry to get the angle between a star and the supernova, you might find further proof. I cannot make sense of the data on the Interplanetary Network but it is supposed to give precise directions to bursts.

The IPN uses the arrival times of gamma rays from several satellites to determine the direction and intensity of the origin of the grb. Ulysses, KONUS wind, BeppoSAX, Mars Odyssey and others have gamma ray detectors aboard. In fact, basically every satellite launched since 1995 has had a gamma detector of some kind aboard. Being widely spaced, it makes it realtively easy to triangulate the origin of a gamma ray burst using the arrival time of the burst energy.

>If these directions match the position of a local star and its approx distance agrees with a hit from a supeernova then you have it.

So far, they do not match. There was one GRB last year that may be linked to a supernova in a distant galaxy. One. Distant-700 million LY.


>Please note that the 1006 AD supernova was very close so that ordinary stars might produce detectable bursts.

Again, faulty physics.

And this is not to say that the measurement of cosmological distances to some afterglows was wrong. This is just an extra possibility. Who says that gamma bursts have only one explanation?

Certainly not me. It's just that the most well studied bursts so far all point to distant origins, except on that I'm aware of, one from the LMC in and it turned out to be a soft gamma repeater, a completely different animal.




Share this page with a friend!
Follow Ups:


Post a Followup

Name:
E-Mail:

Subject:

Comments:

Optional Link URL:
Link Title:
Optional Image URL:


[Follow Ups][Post Followup][Astronomy Campfire][The Jolly Roger ]
[The World's Largest Literary Cafe: Carolinanavy.com ]

[Jollyroger.com][Carolinanavy.com][Nantuckets.com][BusinessPhilosophy.com][greattextbooks.com][Quarterdeck][xmlclics.com]
[ Jolly Roger Live Chat][The Jolly Roger][Kill Devil Hill][Western Canon University]
[Federalistnavy.com][Starbuck.com][Linux Poetry]
[ussconstitutions.com] [Free jollyrogermail][William Shakespeare] [JR Greetings]
[nantucketnavy.com][hatteraslight.com][Clic Greetings]
[MASTHEAD SEARCHTM]

Search:
Astronomy Campfire

Astronomy & Jollyroger.com
If ye would like to moderate the Astronomy Discussion Deck, please drop becket@jollyroger.com a line.

University Store: Save on Textbooks!
Search: Enter keywords...

Amazon.com
[Poetry] [Great Books & Classics] [Shakespeare] [Classics] [Classic eCards] [American History] [Great Books]
[Tutors] [Great Books Forums] [Greatest Conversation] [Cairn Studios]
Join us before the mast for Moby Dick year.

READ THE GREAT BOOKS
TERM PAPERS, RESEARCH PAPERS, ESSAYS

BUY THE GREAT BOOKS

Free postnuke hosting, blogging, and photo galleries @ mobynuke.net
THE THREE BOOKS OF THE RENAISSANCE
SUMMER GREAT BOOKS CHALLENGE
JOLLYROGER.COM PENPALS--MEET FELLOW BOOK LOVERS & FRIENDS
PERSONALS.JOLLYROGER.COM: MEET FINE SPIRITS
Open Source: Free Photo Gallery Hosting for Stock Photography
Open Source CMS Renaissance & Digital Rights Management
Free Open Source Blogging & Blog Hosting
Great Books Forum
Open Source Business DR. ELLIOT'S NORTH AMERICAN GREAT BOOKS TOUR--COMING TO A BOOK STORE NEAR YOU

Feedback? Would you like to moderate a forum? Contact j o l l y r o g e r s h i p @ y a h o o . c o m.

Join The Great Books Renaissance! myspace.com/americanrenaissance

THE. BEST. GREAT. BOOKS. T-SHIRTS. EVER.